topic Rif.: Sony KD-55AF9 digital output volume control in Android TV

Sony KD-55AF9 digital output volume control

khaeid2 — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 08:05:49 GMT

Hi,

I intend to connect the digital output, optical or HDMI ARC, to an external sound system, that most likely will not have it's own volume control, I will not be using AV receiver.

Is it possible to change the audio level from any of these outputs by changing the volume in the TV using the normal up/down volume control on the remote?

Rif.: Sony KD-55AF9 digital output volume control

rooobb — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 08:41:33 GMT

I'm not aware of any sound system that does not have its own volume control, anyway via HDMI-ARC you'll be able to fully control it (or at least the volume and switching on/off) while via optical no

Rif.: Sony KD-55AF9 digital output volume control

khaeid2 — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 08:59:46 GMT

I got this one, it's Optical to Stereo, unfortunately this is the one I ordered for now

But Probably I should try this then

Rif.: Sony KD-55AF9 digital output volume control

rooobb — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 09:37:55 GMT

I did not understand what is the actual setup you want to create...

Those devices only split the digital signal coming from the tv into analogue, than you'll need in any case an amplifier to drive your speaker and this will be the one who will control the volume. None of those devices will receive or change the volume. AFAIK

Rif.: Sony KD-55AF9 digital output volume control

khaeid2 — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 10:06:57 GMT

I already have active (powered) speakers, I am sound engineer, I do not like the normal Hi-Fi, speakers sound or the TV built in sound

I have Genelec powered speakers for L&R, compatible powered Genelec Subwoofer, and few powered studio speakers for surround, so I need to connect line level audio to them, a signal which I should be able to change volume before the extraction

Rif.: Sony KD-55AF9 digital output volume control

rooobb — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 10:24:52 GMT

Wow kind of expensive pieces

Did you check on their own forum? https://www.community.genelec.com/web/guest/forum/-/message_boards/message/912409#/

BTW i do not want to write an heresy since you are more expert than me, but until you have only L&R speaker you could enjoy them by simply connecting them with a correct cable (3.5 jack to XLR ) from the headphone out of the tv.... Obviously not anymore when you'll have the full system since over there you'll get only stereo output

Rif.: Sony KD-55AF9 digital output volume control

khaeid2 — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 11:34:37 GMT

ah Thanx, I did not think this would be discussed in Genelec forum.

I will try to get this with least equipment needed, AV receiver will be my last solution

Rif.: Sony KD-55AF9 digital output volume control

khaeid2 — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 18:55:56 GMT

a question, the ARC in the TV, can it be connected to non ARC device and use it to transfer audio out of the TV?

Rif.: Sony KD-55AF9 digital output volume control

royabrown2 — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 21:54:58 GMT

@khaeid2

If you connect the HDMI cable from the ARC-enabled HDMI input/output on the TV to a device that doesn’t understand ARC, the TV will detect this and not supply ARC.

But I think you are on the right track with the optical out, since if you go into the relevant Audio menu on the TV, you should find that you can both set a suitable volume level on the Optical Out, and then choose whether that is a fixed level, or whether it can be varied by the volume control on the remote.

As here:-

https://helpguide.sony.net//tv/daep1/v1/en/04-04_02.html

Slightly confusingly, it talks about Headphones/Audio Out, which kind of makes it sound like it doesn’t apply, but it does, as you will be controlling Audio Out here.

I’m hoping setting these will mute your TV speakers, but if not, a trick I have used in the past is to put a 3.5mm stereo jack with no cable attached to it in the headphones socket on a TV; the mere presence of this is enough to make the TV switch to headphones out instead of speakers out, thus muting it. Though this doesn’t work on every TV.

I’m pretty sure I got my 2015 Sony Android TV to work the way I wanted through optical into a surround system with no ARC though, much as above.

Though there, the surround system did at least have Optical In. For surround, you will need a gizmo like the HDMI to HDMI device you pictured, but with Optical to 5.1 RCAs, instead of the Optical to stereo (2.0) in your first picture. But if you get it working in stereo with the device you have, this will be a good proof of concept, and then you can maybe hunt down a 5.1 splitter, like this one:-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Adapter-Decoder-Optical-Coaxial/dp/B00AZHNXNO

I’ll be interested to hear how you get on.

Rif.: Sony KD-55AF9 digital output volume control

khaeid2 — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 22:12:25 GMT

Thank you for your reply.

1- I was able to get stereo sound using Optical output with the small optical/Analogue 2.0 device I got

2- as you mentioned whether I choose audio system or TV speakers, the optical will always output sound, so I did think of using the dummy jack in the headphones

3- I heard and read a lot about the Fixed/Variable headphone and how it affects the optical output, but very strangely I could not find this setting anywhere in my AF9, maybe they removed this setting from the latest software, or maybe I am searching in the wrong place

4- I wanted to get what you suggested, but then I found this, and unfortunately I have to use this as I am not able to find the variable headphone settings

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07QD3P3WQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Rif.: Sony KD-55AF9 digital output volume control

royabrown2 — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 22:42:57 GMT

@khaeid2

I see with 1 and 2 we have good agreement.

Regarding 3, you may well be right; the manuals Sony supply with these sets are famously useless, and the link I gave is a bit vague about exactly where to find the setting even on sets that definitely have it.

Your best bet is to look up some of the terms from the link I gave, e.g. ‘Variable’ in the online Help on your TV. If they turn up, they should tell you where to look, and if they don’t turn up, then yes, they have removed this feature in your set.

4 looks like it might be a good solution; at least it puts your volume control on a remote, even if it’s not, as would be ideal, the TV remote. As long as you don’t mind running several thousand euros worth of speakers off a 35€ DAC 😛

Rif.: Sony KD-55AF9 digital output volume control

khaeid2 — Fri, 11 Oct 2019 07:36:35 GMT

I already have my Speakers from my previous studio, and I do not like the sound of HiFi speakers anyway.

and buying an AV receiver for over 700 Euros, where most of this money is going to the channel amplifiers, fancy screen, tens of inputs and outputs , where i only need the small part of the decoder

So hopefully the 35 Euro decoder would have ok decoding ability.

if I found the same product with better quality I would have got it 😞

anyway, I already noticed many issues regarding this, including audio/video sync, I will make another topic for this complain

Rif.: Sony KD-55AF9 digital output volume control

royabrown2 — Fri, 11 Oct 2019 07:54:42 GMT

Hi @khaeid2

Yes, I realised you already had the speakers. Most of the sound engineers I know seem to like only JBL speakers out of the regular ‘HiFi’ brands, feeling an affinity for their hard (in a good way) and analytical approach, which I understand.

You certainly don’t want an AV amp; but in the premium HiFi field, you can pay any money you want for a dedicated DAC, from less than £100 up to about £1500. And they only extract stereo!
Maybe it’s all snake oil, though, but as you progress with your quest here, you may turn up a pro or semi-pro digital to 5.1 analogue converter someplace.

I’ll look out for your next post, but I’m guessing the DAC introduces a delay in the sound? I think there’s something on the TV to remedy this, as it’s quite common with external audio.

Rif.: Sony KD-55AF9 digital output volume control

khaeid2 — Fri, 11 Oct 2019 08:12:49 GMT

Yes, there is the issue of the synchronization, which i believe even the users of high end AV receiver users face it. this is what I meant by A/V sync issues. which should be addressed by Sony, by simply offering video delay, which would for sure use lots of memory for streaming like Netflix, but it is important,

I am thinking now of using Tasker on the TV, and see if I can find a way to control the, very hard to find, optical output PCM level adjust.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.dinglisch.android.taskerm&hl=en

Rif.: Sony KD-55AF9 digital output volume control

rooobb — Fri, 11 Oct 2019 08:54:21 GMT

Normally this is a feature that is up to the AV receiver to manage, there is no such option of video delay on the tv.

your tv should have in anycase a feature called AV sync in the audio menu that (strangely) seems to work better if you put it to off. You may want to try all the setting available just in case...

Rif.: Sony KD-55AF9 digital output volume control

royabrown2 — Fri, 11 Oct 2019 09:05:34 GMT

@rooobb

According to the documentation that I have, AV Sync works only with Bluetooth.

But practical experience with a TV in front of you trumps documentation 😄

Worth looking up AV Sync in the online Help on the TV though, to see what it says about it there.

(We gifted our 2015 Sony Android set to our eldest son, so I have to go over to his if I want to check anything. And besides, it’s getting a bit out of date now).

Rif.: Sony KD-55AF9 digital output volume control

rooobb — Fri, 11 Oct 2019 09:15:57 GMT

In the manual it says it is related only to HDMI connection (see hint https://helpguide.sony.net/tv/faep2/v1/en/04-04_02.html ) and it is the way I use it, but you could always try...

Rif.: Sony KD-55AF9 digital output volume control

royabrown2 — Fri, 11 Oct 2019 09:36:55 GMT

@rooobb

We’re both wrong 😛

Actually, it works with either. The help guide you reference is newer than mine - it mentions eARC which mine doesn’t - but both talk about AV Sync working with Bluetooth and (specific) audio systems over HDMI.

Nothing about any sync adjustment for Optical in either though 😥

Rif.: Sony KD-55AF9 digital output volume control

khaeid2 — Fri, 11 Oct 2019 14:00:52 GMT

Actually I do not understand how can the TV compensate for the latency caused by a D/A converter that is attached to either HDMI, Bluetooth or Optical output.

unless there is a feedback from the converter telling the TV how much latency it implement on the signal.

so the easiest is for the TV to have custom delay for video, a feature that exists in majority of low price android applications.

and I am aware now that the TV only controls the audio level of the headphones and the HDMI ARC/eARC, and I know that ARC bandwidth is narrow that it barely can transfer the information of 2 channels, that is why there is only HDMI ARC / 2.0 standalone converters,

eARC is much larger bandwidth and can hold multiple channels at high quality, but there isn't any standalone converters for it.

so the only solution now is to head for that 35 Euros Optical/5.1 decoder, with remote volume

or I will try with Tasker

Rif.: Sony KD-55AF9 digital output volume control

royabrown2 — Sat, 12 Oct 2019 08:21:42 GMT

@khaeid2

The sync described for Bluetooth and ‘selected’ HDMI devices could in principle be negotiated between the devices; send a round-trip message and time it. But could be a manual adjustment for all I know.

Over Optical, it would have to be manual, as you say, custom adjustment; as this isn’t present, it suggests that for those devices where it is possible, it is automated.